“Companies don’t die from competition. They usually die from suicide.”

— Matt Mullenweg

Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) is co-founder of the open-source publishing platform WordPress, which now powers over 40 percent of all sites on the web. He is the founder and CEO of Automattic, the company behind WordPress.com, WooCommerce, Tumblr, WPVIP, Day One, Texts, and Pocket Casts. Additionally, Matt runs Audrey Capital, an investment and research company. He has been recognized for his leadership by Forbes, Bloomberg Businessweek, Inc., TechCrunch, Fortune, Fast Company, Wired, University Philosophical Society, and Vanity Fair.

Matt is originally from Houston, Texas, where he attended the High School for the Performing and Visual Arts and studied jazz saxophone. In his spare time, Matt is an avid photographer. He currently splits his time between Houston and San Francisco.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

Brought to you by Momentous high-quality supplements, Helix Sleep premium mattresses, and AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement.

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This episode is brought to you by AG1! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG1 further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

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Want to hear the episode Matt Mullenweg and I did from Antarctica? Listen to our conversation here in which we discussed whisky, perpetual daylight, living with zero internet access, the “patient” landscape of Antarctica, witnessing a total solar eclipse, the grieving process, podcast tech specs, existential revelations, bucket list items, and much more.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Matt Mullenweg:

Twitter | Instagram | Blog | Facebook | Spotify

• Automattic
• WordPress.com
• WordPress.org
• WooCommerce
• Tumblr
• WordPress VIP
• Day One
• Texts
• Pocket Casts
• Audrey Capital
• Spam Protection for Websites | Akismet
• Berkshire Hathaway
• Buyers of First Resort | Works in Progress
• Open-Source Software | Wikipedia
• Philosophy | WordPress.org
• Tom Sawyer Whitewashing the Fence | PBS
• “The First Thing Our New Hire Did…” | (ROBIN) at Twitter
• Could Your Hiring Process Use Some ‘Mystery Shopping’? | Indeed
• What Is Red Teaming? | WhatIs.com
• What’s in My Bag, 2023 | Matt Mullenweg
• State of the Word | WordPress.org
• The #1 App for Meditation and Sleep | Calm
• Apple’s Newest Headache: An App That Upended Its Control Over Messaging | The New York Times
• Candies & Chocolates Online | See’s Candies
• The 2020s Will Be an Era of Atoms, Not Bits | Digital Tonto
• Twitter to Remove Free API Access in Latest Money Making Quest | The Verge
• The Customer Company | Salesforce
• The Many Annoying Ways Google Forced Users onto Google+ | The Verge
• Notes | App Store
• A Note-Taking Tool for Networked Thought | Roam Research
• Sharpen Your Thinking | Obsidian
• The DevSecOps Platform | GitLab
• Secure Collaboration and Messaging | Element
• Power Your Entire Business | Square
• Jack Dorsey Gives Decentralized Social Network Nostr 14 BTC in Funding | CoinDesk
• Bluesky
• Simple, Secure, Reliable Messaging | WhatsApp
• Speak Freely | Signal
• A Conversation with Charlie Munger & John Collison | Invest Like the Best
• Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse | Amazon
• Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis | Amazon
• Awareness: The Perils and Opportunities of Reality by Anthony de Mello | Amazon
• The Acceleration of Addictiveness | Paul Graham
• How to Do Great Work | Paul Graham
• Slate Star Codex
• The Knowledge Project Podcast
• The 4-Hour Chef: The Simple Path to Cooking Like a Pro, Learning Anything, and Living the Good Life by Timothy Ferriss | Amazon
• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss | Amazon
• Making Commerce Better for Everyone | Shopify
• Writers’ Strike 2023: Historic Strike Ends, Impacts Hollywood | Los Angeles Times
• Wait But Why
• The Top Idea in Your Mind | Paul Graham
• Maker’s Schedule, Manager’s Schedule | Paul Graham
• Candyman | Prime Video
• Paul Graham on Ambition, Art, and Evaluating Talent | Conversations with Tyler
• Small Steps Toward a Much Better World | Marginal Revolution
• National Fed Challenge | Wikipedia
• Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) | The Fed
• Effective Federal Funds Rate | Federal Bank Reserve of New York
• What Is the Illuminati? 9 Questions about the Illuminati, Answered | Vox
• Kinder High School for the Performing and Visual Arts
• Blogging the Milt Friedman Conference | Matt Mullenweg
• Body for Life: 12 Weeks to Mental and Physical Strength by Bill Phillips and Michael D’Orso | Amazon
• Red Ocean Strategy vs. Blue Ocean Strategy I Blue Ocean Strategy
• What Is USB-C? An Explainer | PCMag
• Apple Pushes Back Against iPhone USB-C Regulations in India | MacRumors
• 6000mah Ultra Slim Built in Cables Power Bank | Amazon
• Prompt Engineering Guide
• Introducing ChatGPT | OpenAI
• Midjourney
• Sweeping Changes for Leading-Edge Chip Architectures | Semiconductor Engineering
• Car Dealership Disturbed When Its AI Is Caught Offering Chevys for $1 Each | Futurism
• Empty Planet: The Shock of Global Population Decline by Darrell Bricker and John Ibbitson | Amazon
• World Population Growth Is Expected to Nearly Stop By 2100 | Pew Research Center
• Will Traditional Colleges and Universities Become Obsolete? | Smithsonian Magazine
• Hobbes’ Moral and Political Philosophy | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
• Emergency: This Book Will Save Your Life by Neil Strauss | Amazon
• We Cannot Predict the Future, But We Can Invent It | Quote Investigator
• Will Data Liberation Grow WordPress? | The WP Minute
• Create a Free Website Today | Wix
• Apple Says It ‘Expects to Make’ App Store Policy Changes Due to EU DMA | TechCrunch
• Every Apple App Store Fee, Explained: How Much, for What, and When | AppleInsider
• Beta Testing made simple with TestFlight | Apple Developer
• Blazingly Fast Email for Teams and Individuals | Superhuman
• Twitter Is Still Throttling Competitors’ Links — Check for Yourself | The Markup
• Google AMP: How Google Tried to Fix the Web by Taking It Over | The Verge
• All-In Summit: Bill Gurley Presents 2,851 Miles | All-In Podcast
• A Stark Contrast Between the US and Europe on Tests | Bloomberg
• How Alignment Charts Went From Dungeons & Dragons to a Meme | The Atlantic
• Password Manager for Families, Businesses, Teams | 1Password
• Passkeys (Passkey Authentication) | FIDO Alliance
• What is PGP Encryption? Pretty Good Privacy Explained | Fortinet
• WordCamp Asia 2023
• Taipei City | Tourism Administration
• Ratatouille | Prime Video
• Tim Ferriss and Matt Mullenweg in Antarctica: Exploring Personal Fears, Bucket Lists, Facing Grief, Crafting Life Missions, and Tim’s Best Penguin Impressions | The Tim Ferriss Show #578
• Automattic’s Sabbatical Benefit | Automattic
• Open Vacation Policy: How Automattic Makes It Work | Culture Amp
• How to Take a Mini-Retirement: Tips and Tricks | Tim Ferriss
• Jerry Colonna — How to Reboot Yourself and Feel Unrushed in the New Year | The Tim Ferriss Show #554
• Jerry Colonna — The Coach with the Spider Tattoo | The Tim Ferriss Show #373
• Your Body Called, Your Future Self Answered | Blueprint
• Hedonic Treadmill | Psychology Today
• The Lessons of History by Will Durant and Ariel Durant | Amazon
• Fallen Leaves: Last Words on Life, Love, War, and God by Will Durant | Amazon
• Anti-Nuclear Movement | Wikipedia
• Former Greenpeace Director Explains His Support for Nuclear Energy | ANS / Nuclear Newswire
• What Are the Safest and Cleanest Sources of Energy? | Our World in Data
• A Nuclear Innovation Company | TerraPower
• Clean, Reliable, Affordable Energy | Oklo
• Reefer Madness | Prime Video
• Psychedelics 101: Books, Documentaries, Podcasts, Science, and More | Tim Ferriss
• Dr. Gül Dölen on Rethinking Psychedelics, New Applications (Autism, Stroke, and Allergies), The Neurobiology of Beginner’s Mind, Octopuses on MDMA, and The Master Key of Metaplasticity | The Tim Ferriss Show #667
• Some Thoughts on For-Profit Psychedelic Startups and Companies | Tim Ferriss
• The World’s Largest Psychedelic Research Center | The Tim Ferriss Show #385
• How Many People Have Died at Disney World? | Something About Orange
• Dr. Nolan Williams: Psychedelics and Neurostimulation for Brain Rewiring | Huberman Lab
• “The Iceman,” Wim Hof | The Tim Ferriss Show #102
• About Holotropic Breathwork | Grof Transpersonal Training
• Holotropic Breathwork: A New Approach to Self-Exploration and Therapy by Stanislav Grof and Christina Grof | Amazon
• A Leading Center for Exploring Human Potential | Esalen Institute
• Waking Up with Sam Harris App
• Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel | Tim Ferriss
• Some Practical Thoughts on Suicide | Tim Ferriss
• “Productivity” Tricks for the Neurotic, Manic-Depressive, and Crazy (Like Me) | Tim Ferriss
• Dr. John Krystal — All Things Ketamine, The Most Comprehensive Podcast Episode Ever | The Tim Ferriss Show #625
• Accelerated TMS: Moving Quickly into the Future of Depression Treatment | Neuropsychopharmacology
• Stanford Accelerated Intelligent Neuromodulation Therapy (SAINT) for Treatment-Resistant Depression | American Journal of Psychiatry
• How to Discover Your Peak State with Emotional Triad Psychology | Tony Robbins
• Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier by Kevin Kelly | Amazon
• Sir Richard Branson — The Billionaire Maverick of the Virgin Empire | The Tim Ferriss Show #272
• The Work | Byron Katie
• One in Five Young Americans Think the Holocaust Is a Myth — And It’s All Down to TikTok | The Jewish Chronicle
• These Countries Have Bans on Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok | Time
• Blog Articles | Derek Sivers
• Libby’s Vienna Sausage | Amazon
• Flour + Water
• Pizzeria Delfina
• La Connessa
• Saison
• Heinz Ranch Single-Serve Packets (Pack of 200) | Amazon
• What is Wabi Sabi? The Elusive Beauty of Imperfection | Japan Objects
• Transcendental Meditation
• Dr. Willoughby Britton — The Hidden Risks of Meditation, Overlaps with Psychedelic Risks, Harm Reduction Strategies, How to Choose a Retreat, Near-Death Experiences, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #705
• Defying Cavity: Lantern Bioworks FAQ | Astral Codex Ten
• Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria | Lantern Bioworks
• ZBiotics Pre-Alcohol Probiotic Drink | Amazon
• USB Mini Disco Light | Amazon

SHOW NOTES

• [05:12] The Argentine Dr. Mullenweg.
• [08:15] Open source.
• [10:19] Secret hiring.
• [12:59] Matt is always on tour.
• [15:14] Texts.
• [17:39] How Matt chooses his next project(s).
• [21:51] Building a digital Berkshire Hathaway.
• [29:01] Why Matt’s excited about messaging.
• [32:03] How Matt discovers companies he buys.
• [32:53] RIP, Charlie Munger.
• [33:28] Worthy rereads.
• [37:10] My reflections on blogging, writing, and podcasting.
• [48:55] Tyler Cowen’s inimitable style.
• [49:42] Matt’s high school economics competition.
• [57:05] Cables.
• [57:59] AI spellcasting and community.
• [1:01:09] Developments that will amaze the future.
• [1:04:51] AI-proofing jobs.
• [1:07:23] Why Matt’s optimistic about future generations.
• [1:12:17] Data Liberation Front.
• [1:14:12] More open app stores.
• [1:18:53] Invisible tools (and weapons) of competition.
• [1:23:40] Online security advice for the layman.
• [1:26:21] WordCamp Asia.
• [1:32:12] Taking a sa-Matt-ical.
• [1:45:25] Rethinking nuclear energy.
• [1:47:20] Rethinking psychedelics risks.
• [1:57:59] Rethinking breathwork.
• [2:02:05] Coping with depression.
• [2:15:16] Rethinking TikTok.
• [2:16:40] Blogging: absurd and beautiful.
• [2:18:40] Rethinking Vienna sausages.
• [2:19:57] Pocket ranch.
• [2:21:36] Answering ancient emails.
• [2:22:45] The curse of the ultra-critical eye.
• [2:25:51] Rethinking meditation.
• [2:28:38] Bacterial dentistry.
• [2:32:06] Pocket party.
• [2:32:55] Parting thoughts.

MORE MATT MULLENWEG QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“Don’t build on proprietary platforms. They can pull the rug and will pull the rug at any point. In open source, one, the rug can’t be pulled. Two, typically they’re ultra pluggable. You can really change every line of WordPress.”
— Matt Mullenweg

“How do we help bend the long arc towards more freedom, more liberty across the world? Technology does that better than, I think, any sort of diplomacy or anything else that I could work on.”
— Matt Mullenweg

“Companies don’t die from competition. They usually die from suicide.”
— Matt Mullenweg

“If you have the people on your side, I feel like that’s what truly matters in the long term.”
— Matt Mullenweg

PEOPLE MENTIONED

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The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than 900 million downloads. It has been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it’s been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.